Comments on: The Police State at Carnaval

By: J.D.

J.D. — Mon, 14 Jun 2010 22:11:35 +0000

We dont get paid, someone got there information wrong.

By: Stevesf

Stevesf — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:11:49 +0000

Overtime it is people. Yearly cost of overtime alone, not including just regular pay, is more than the SF Public Defender’s entire annual budget.

By: guero

guero — Thu, 28 May 2009 17:47:04 +0000

Well. I’m late on this reply and it may not be relevant anymore. I will say that yes, while I’m no expert on gangs, I do know the difference between nortenos and surenos (the sad thing is that really – there is no difference, they are both trouble). I sometimes hang out a local bar and a bunch will often show up. My good friend and half my family work in in law enforcement (some are brown too by the way)recognize them. I also have on old schoolmate who is a norteno. (Again, no expert but please don’t assume I don’t know shit either.) More often than not, one of them will start shit with some one else and it’s all over from there.
I was at the festival and there were plenty of brown teenagers there and they seemed to be getting on just fine. I’m not quite sure how and why you are linking my disfavor of gangs to any given hispanic teenagers. Like I said earlier, if the weather was hot, as the planners were expecting, the police presence would not have seemed so large. I was there around noon and the crowd was sparse at best. To be honest, there wasn’t much there.

If you think the police are there enforcing some kind of racist agenda, then there is nothing I can say that will dissuade you. I have to agree with most, the festival is pretty lame but I, and my family, very much enjoyed the parade. I didn’t mind the police presence there and I didn’t hear anyone there even mention it let alone complain about it, until I read the blog and comments.

By: sfmike

sfmike — Wed, 27 May 2009 21:43:18 +0000

The overwhelming overtime police presence at events like the Carnaval festival is an extortion racket, pure and simple. You don’t think they were there to actually protect anybody, do you?

By: renzomatic

renzomatic — Tue, 26 May 2009 22:06:00 +0000

Looks like the Guardian Angels need to institute a Physical Education program for their ranks, a couple of chubsters in that group that won’t be chasing anyone down.

By: Deano

Deano — Tue, 26 May 2009 21:23:48 +0000

Why is EVERYTHING cops do for the city “overtime?” They know these events happen every year. In a city like this, overtime should only happen when something extraordinary occurs, like a riot or a one-off big deal needs-high-security event. Not every damn thing. Extortion is what that is.

By: olu

olu — Tue, 26 May 2009 19:29:32 +0000

There are lots of reasons to not want the cops around and when you “fit the description” simply by the fact of your existence, it makes them even less welcome.

But we do need them. And generally cops in this town are A-okay (or at least a solid B) but having that many clustered can be intimidating.

By: zinzin

zinzin — Tue, 26 May 2009 17:53:55 +0000

i agree with jimbeam there…in that no one is calling for an army of cops at carnival. and PARTICULARLY not because the crowd is largely non-white. i think that’s a pretty broad and misguided assertion.

i’d argue that most folks here are not saying that when “you have a bunch of dark folks and all of a sudden it’s a recipe for violence and fear.”

i think that most folks here are quite proud of the neighborhood’s diversity, quite protective of the long-standing Latino community at its core, and quite welcoming of all sorts of people.

By: Kevin Montgomery

Kevin Montgomery — Tue, 26 May 2009 17:37:01 +0000

Bingo.

By: jimbeam

jimbeam — Tue, 26 May 2009 17:32:12 +0000

I don’t think anyone here thinks there is a need for the massive police presence. In fact, the overlying context of this discussion (as in, people have been very clear about it) is that there doesn’t need to be such a security presence, but in order to avoid lawsuits the city will feel compelled to provide one.

By: LINDYLULA

LINDYLULA — Tue, 26 May 2009 17:21:36 +0000

I don’t mind the cops. I dare say SF cops are some of the most tolerant I’ve ever seen in the U.S. But this notion among the people who post here that Carnaval is any more violent or any more bothersome than any other street fair in the city is annoying to me.

Wanna talk about annoying? How about Bay to Breakers? One long, drunken filthy mess. Want to talk violence? How about Halloween in the Castro? Wanna talk about public urination and vomit on the sidewalks? How about the North Beach Jazz Festival or North Beach on any given weekend.

To me the underlying subtext among these discussions is that you have a bunch of dark folks and all of a sudden it’s a recipe for violence and fear. If people would stop assuming that every single saggy panted teenager is a gangbanger and out to get you, then you wouldn’t live in such fear.

Believe me, there is no mistaking a real gangbanger. When you see one you will know it. The difference if you pay attention is unmistakable. 9 out of 10 of those saggy arsed kids is not one. Sure they may be surly, sure they may be getting up to the usual teenaged hijinx (who hasn’t?)but they aren’t packing and they aren’t out to kill whitey.
Talk to them sometime. Learn to understand the difference. Many are actually quite sweet.

By: elly

elly — Tue, 26 May 2009 09:29:18 +0000

personally, i was glad for police AND guardian angel presence. whenever there’s a big event in the mission i worry that drunken event shenanigans will lead to upped gang violence. i guess it’s pretty much a buzzkill that cops are there hassling you about stupid crap like your bike, but it’s much more of a buzzkill when people get stabbed/shot on my doorstep. i think having cops actually out on the street as opposed to driving around in their cars really helps. and personally i totally love the guardian angels, but i did grow up military.

By: zinzin

zinzin — Tue, 26 May 2009 04:30:12 +0000

i have no idea what guero knows about gang culture in the mission, but you make a good point here regarding typical assumptions regarding a group of brown teenage boys.

my experience, most of the kids in the hood are nice enough. they are often stereotyped as knucklehead gangbangers – by folks who admittedly have no fucking clue – because of their clothes or language or whatever.

and for sure – first hand from discussion – the notion that someone might assume they’re x or y or z because of that, makes them tense and angry. just like it would anyone else.

that said – again from first hand discussion – when they dress and speak and act more or less the same as a group of gangbangers – it’s tough to discern for the layperson (as you say)…what’s someone supposed to do walking down the street?

kids i spoke with had no answers. they just said that’s how everyone dresses, and talks, and acts…and if you need to know the difference, you know it.

fair enough, i guess.

By: lindylula

lindylula — Tue, 26 May 2009 04:08:22 +0000

Guero, I dare say you wouldn’t know a Norteño from a Sureño if one bit you on the ass. Sorry but I just hate it when people who don’t know what the heck they are talking about presume to tell me about tell me aaaall about the Crips and the Bloods, blue versus red or Norteño versus Sureño. Like it’s that simplistic.

Right. So I’m supposed to believe that your years here in the the neighborhood make you an expert on all things gang related.

Like Freud said- sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes a group of brown teenage boys hanging out is just a group of brown teenage boys hanging out. The only thing that makes them gangsters is your fear of them.

By: Jessica L.

Jessica L. — Mon, 25 May 2009 18:36:40 +0000

As someone who lives on Harrison at 18th St., I endorse these views and wholeheartedly agree. Ugh, we hate Carnaval. Haate.