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	<title>Comments on: Raising rents and the history of land ownership</title>
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	<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/</link>
	<description>Saluting San Francisco&#039;s Mission District</description>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49341</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Remember 15 years ago, when you couldn&#039;t even have gay characters on sitcoms? When it was a big deal that Ellen DeGeneres came out? To me, the fact that gay marriage is now legal in some states and domestic partnership is in so many more states is much bigger news than the fact that its still illegal in others. 
There will always be Santorums, but it&#039;s hard not to think society as a whole has moved forward on this issue. Nothing ever changes overnight, but the more that regular Americans actually meet openly gay people, the faster the prejudice slips away; I think statistics bear that out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember 15 years ago, when you couldn&#8217;t even have gay characters on sitcoms? When it was a big deal that Ellen DeGeneres came out? To me, the fact that gay marriage is now legal in some states and domestic partnership is in so many more states is much bigger news than the fact that its still illegal in others.<br />
There will always be Santorums, but it&#8217;s hard not to think society as a whole has moved forward on this issue. Nothing ever changes overnight, but the more that regular Americans actually meet openly gay people, the faster the prejudice slips away; I think statistics bear that out.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49340</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fair enough, Vic. Maybe I will tag along some day. Again, my style of writing makes me sound more absolutist than I really am. Pissing on someone else&#039;s favorite music isn&#039;t my scene. Music and pretension don&#039;t mix. I&#039;m going to a punk rock memorial in southeast SF tomorrow for one of SF&#039;s shock-art personalities who died last month.

You bring up a good point about viable venues, and frankly, I don&#039;t know what to make of Oakland&#039;s dearth of rock clubs, I don&#039;t know enough to have an informed opinion. As for SF, when I try to count up the live music clubs, the impression I get is that they&#039;ve all but disappeared. If you consider how many live music clubs were around in the 90s and compare it to now, it&#039;s pretty shocking, even if it is still more than Oakland.

I think this might all have to do with an overall dearth of live bands and people who like them. Let&#039;s face it, being a live band is expensive: you need a rehearsal space (at SF rents) and a large vehicle to transport gear, just for starters. MP3s and garageband software have changed the way people listen to music and even what their concept of music is. I know that clubs like the Stork Club in Oakland actually have trouble booking enough bands...that&#039;s something that seemed really hard to imagine in the 90s, when bands would drop off demo tapes at clubs in the same ratio as prospective tenants drop off applications for a Mission victorian that goes on the market. 
To me, that suggests that it isn&#039;t just a dearth of clubs, but a dearth of interest in the music altogether. How much of this is due to rock musicians being priced out of the Bay Area and how much is due to an overall societal shift away from rock music is hard to say. Of course, I&#039;m talking exclusively about rock here, and not other genres, which may be experiencing different results. 

It is interesting that you brought up Oakland because I love it over here. When I moved here I was thrilled to be able to hang out at the Stork and see bands while the streets outside were largely empty, there was always parking, and motorcyclists went up and down Telegraph doing wheelies. It reminded me of how the Mission was in the early 90s, and I found that reassuring. 

As for restaurant culture, I&#039;m really not a foodie, but I&#039;m always up for new experiences. One of the great things about moving to SF was finding all these cool little inexpensive places and having so many choices, but that referred to everything, not just eateries. I stumbled into taquerias on my own and loved the ability to get a large amount of food inexpensively, with a vegetarian option, and be totally immersed in the culture while I ate. Finding an excellent $5&lt; restaurant then felt like a true score, because there were no guidebooks or foodies around. Nowadays, you have entrepreneurs who come here and concoct new and exotic ways of presenting food to a &quot;professional&quot; dining class. To me, that&#039;s not the same thing. Thanks to the new Mission culture, you can get spinach tortilla burritos or taco salads and you can pay with a credit card, and burritos cost $6 and up. I&#039;m old fashioned, I prefer it the way it was; my favorite taqueria now is in San Jose.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough, Vic. Maybe I will tag along some day. Again, my style of writing makes me sound more absolutist than I really am. Pissing on someone else&#8217;s favorite music isn&#8217;t my scene. Music and pretension don&#8217;t mix. I&#8217;m going to a punk rock memorial in southeast SF tomorrow for one of SF&#8217;s shock-art personalities who died last month.</p>
<p>You bring up a good point about viable venues, and frankly, I don&#8217;t know what to make of Oakland&#8217;s dearth of rock clubs, I don&#8217;t know enough to have an informed opinion. As for SF, when I try to count up the live music clubs, the impression I get is that they&#8217;ve all but disappeared. If you consider how many live music clubs were around in the 90s and compare it to now, it&#8217;s pretty shocking, even if it is still more than Oakland.</p>
<p>I think this might all have to do with an overall dearth of live bands and people who like them. Let&#8217;s face it, being a live band is expensive: you need a rehearsal space (at SF rents) and a large vehicle to transport gear, just for starters. MP3s and garageband software have changed the way people listen to music and even what their concept of music is. I know that clubs like the Stork Club in Oakland actually have trouble booking enough bands&#8230;that&#8217;s something that seemed really hard to imagine in the 90s, when bands would drop off demo tapes at clubs in the same ratio as prospective tenants drop off applications for a Mission victorian that goes on the market.<br />
To me, that suggests that it isn&#8217;t just a dearth of clubs, but a dearth of interest in the music altogether. How much of this is due to rock musicians being priced out of the Bay Area and how much is due to an overall societal shift away from rock music is hard to say. Of course, I&#8217;m talking exclusively about rock here, and not other genres, which may be experiencing different results. </p>
<p>It is interesting that you brought up Oakland because I love it over here. When I moved here I was thrilled to be able to hang out at the Stork and see bands while the streets outside were largely empty, there was always parking, and motorcyclists went up and down Telegraph doing wheelies. It reminded me of how the Mission was in the early 90s, and I found that reassuring. </p>
<p>As for restaurant culture, I&#8217;m really not a foodie, but I&#8217;m always up for new experiences. One of the great things about moving to SF was finding all these cool little inexpensive places and having so many choices, but that referred to everything, not just eateries. I stumbled into taquerias on my own and loved the ability to get a large amount of food inexpensively, with a vegetarian option, and be totally immersed in the culture while I ate. Finding an excellent $5&lt; restaurant then felt like a true score, because there were no guidebooks or foodies around. Nowadays, you have entrepreneurs who come here and concoct new and exotic ways of presenting food to a &quot;professional&quot; dining class. To me, that&#039;s not the same thing. Thanks to the new Mission culture, you can get spinach tortilla burritos or taco salads and you can pay with a credit card, and burritos cost $6 and up. I&#039;m old fashioned, I prefer it the way it was; my favorite taqueria now is in San Jose.</p>
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		<title>By: last one out</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49334</link>
		<dc:creator>last one out</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 05:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The graffiti is kicking ass and the IT workers hate it. Good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The graffiti is kicking ass and the IT workers hate it. Good.</p>
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		<title>By: last one out</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49333</link>
		<dc:creator>last one out</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 05:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SF will become San Jose and the Niners have left SF.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SF will become San Jose and the Niners have left SF.</p>
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		<title>By: last one out</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49332</link>
		<dc:creator>last one out</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 05:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49332</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Barrington?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barrington?</p>
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		<title>By: last one out</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49331</link>
		<dc:creator>last one out</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2012 05:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49331</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[HAHAHA I was at that pube-lighting show - I was standing right next to dood...the Fuckemos from Austin were playing, maybe? Or the Pleasuresure Fuckers from Madrid? -Hey Rob-. That era was kind of the last gasp, with Mission Rex and Star Wash &amp; whatnot. I didn&#039;t bother to partake in all that -I&#039;m from the early 80s punk scene, and preferred to drink beer in a dark garage and puff a social rock, but the Bubble blew the dustmites out of the dirty carpet. See you in PDX.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HAHAHA I was at that pube-lighting show &#8211; I was standing right next to dood&#8230;the Fuckemos from Austin were playing, maybe? Or the Pleasuresure Fuckers from Madrid? -Hey Rob-. That era was kind of the last gasp, with Mission Rex and Star Wash &amp; whatnot. I didn&#8217;t bother to partake in all that -I&#8217;m from the early 80s punk scene, and preferred to drink beer in a dark garage and puff a social rock, but the Bubble blew the dustmites out of the dirty carpet. See you in PDX.</p>
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		<title>By: rod</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49322</link>
		<dc:creator>rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 23:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eyehategod did play a show in SF, it was just on the downlow.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eyehategod did play a show in SF, it was just on the downlow.</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl F.</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49321</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 23:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Neither did anyone that&#039;s currently here, but your retarded little stereotypes are not much more creative than the ones used by the conservative reactionary types that came before you.

I&#039;m sure Ginsberg ate some ice cream in his life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither did anyone that&#8217;s currently here, but your retarded little stereotypes are not much more creative than the ones used by the conservative reactionary types that came before you.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Ginsberg ate some ice cream in his life.</p>
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		<title>By: moderniste</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49320</link>
		<dc:creator>moderniste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 23:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My man.  I think it&#039;s so GD cool and blase that you can interject a &quot;tl;dr&quot; in the midst of one of the better threads ever seen on MM--wait; it&#039;s not cool at all.  You are an ignoramous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My man.  I think it&#8217;s so GD cool and blase that you can interject a &#8220;tl;dr&#8221; in the midst of one of the better threads ever seen on MM&#8211;wait; it&#8217;s not cool at all.  You are an ignoramous.</p>
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		<title>By: truth</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49319</link>
		<dc:creator>truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 23:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Proved all my points.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proved all my points.</p>
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		<title>By: truth</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49318</link>
		<dc:creator>truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 23:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is true.  Philly and Boston are angry little towns.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is true.  Philly and Boston are angry little towns.</p>
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		<title>By: scum</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49317</link>
		<dc:creator>scum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 23:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://thebolditalic.com/drewhoolhorst/stories/1705-the-life-of-a-bro-ster]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://thebolditalic.com/drewhoolhorst/stories/1705-the-life-of-a-bro-ster" rel="nofollow">http://thebolditalic.com/drewhoolhorst/stories/1705-the-life-of-a-bro-ster</a></p>
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		<title>By: AttF</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49316</link>
		<dc:creator>AttF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[right, but they didn&#039;t move to SF to buy a condo and eat artisan ice cream]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>right, but they didn&#8217;t move to SF to buy a condo and eat artisan ice cream</p>
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		<title>By: AttF</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49315</link>
		<dc:creator>AttF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[actually Vic, quite a few tours are now skipping SF and playing East Bay instead.  The most recent Shellac shows were at the New Parish instead and Eyehategod came all the way from NOLA to play the Metro and not set foot in SF like they did a few years back.  I&#039;m a musician too and play mostly SF gigs, but am also aware that Oakland has a booming warehouse scene in addition to clubs like New Parish, Eli&#039;s, Uptown, and the Metro.  I&#039;m not even considering the all ages crowd, which I guess is relegated to Slim&#039;s and Submission only (I could be wrong).  Not saying that SF is dead...I love the venues that are still around, but am also acknowledging that Oakland has quite a scene and it is much easier to be a musician and pay rent on that side of the Bay.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually Vic, quite a few tours are now skipping SF and playing East Bay instead.  The most recent Shellac shows were at the New Parish instead and Eyehategod came all the way from NOLA to play the Metro and not set foot in SF like they did a few years back.  I&#8217;m a musician too and play mostly SF gigs, but am also aware that Oakland has a booming warehouse scene in addition to clubs like New Parish, Eli&#8217;s, Uptown, and the Metro.  I&#8217;m not even considering the all ages crowd, which I guess is relegated to Slim&#8217;s and Submission only (I could be wrong).  Not saying that SF is dead&#8230;I love the venues that are still around, but am also acknowledging that Oakland has quite a scene and it is much easier to be a musician and pay rent on that side of the Bay.</p>
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		<title>By: truth</title>
		<link>http://www.missionmission.org/2012/03/08/raising-rents-and-the-history-of-land-ownership/#comment-49314</link>
		<dc:creator>truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.missionmission.org/?p=36881#comment-49314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s true, jazz spots pop up and fade out in Oakland because of the struggling economy.  I guess I haven&#039;t been to a good show in SF in a while that was &quot;from here.&quot;  So, suggestions are always welcome.

I think the new obsession with food as &quot;art&quot; is really just hyper-consumer culture figuring out a new way to sell you something for a few bucks more by putting a trendy label on it or serving it in a place with a &quot;hip&quot; ambiance.  I don&#039;t really begrudge people who want to spend their money this way, but I do think there is a troubling set of judgments and ethics that often come along with &quot;foodies.&quot;  In that they judge what people eat without taking into account the structural economic reasons why people eat &quot;bad&quot; food.  Or, in the terms of D. Jon Moutarde, they hate the player and not the game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true, jazz spots pop up and fade out in Oakland because of the struggling economy.  I guess I haven&#8217;t been to a good show in SF in a while that was &#8220;from here.&#8221;  So, suggestions are always welcome.</p>
<p>I think the new obsession with food as &#8220;art&#8221; is really just hyper-consumer culture figuring out a new way to sell you something for a few bucks more by putting a trendy label on it or serving it in a place with a &#8220;hip&#8221; ambiance.  I don&#8217;t really begrudge people who want to spend their money this way, but I do think there is a troubling set of judgments and ethics that often come along with &#8220;foodies.&#8221;  In that they judge what people eat without taking into account the structural economic reasons why people eat &#8220;bad&#8221; food.  Or, in the terms of D. Jon Moutarde, they hate the player and not the game.</p>
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